awaken to new time
:: Open your Mind to a New Time ::
- interviews
Dr. José Argüelle
s -

With all of the turmoil and crises facing humanity, the Earth, and all within the Earth's biosphere, there is one thing that most people can still agree on - there are no easy solutions to our vast array of dilemmas. We strive for peace, equality, freedom, justice, unity, and to protect the Earth including all of its living beings and resources. Yet history has only grown more challenging and complex - filled with an endless stream of obstacles to attaining these ideals.

However, as a looming war troubles the world, there is a movement under way suggesting what may be the one UNTRIED solution. That perhaps something we take for granted and live with day in and day out may need to be changed drastically, and QUICKLY before we can even begin to solve any of these complex issues. What could this be? Humanity's concept and practice of time keeping via the Gregorian calendar and the mechanical clock.

Join as we speak with Dr. José Argüelles, author and founder of the Foundation for the Law of Time, about the 13 Moon Calendar, the New Time Peace Movement and the Great Calendar Change of 2004. In addition, Dr. Argüelles shares his extensive knowledge of the history of the calendar, Mayan time science, 2012 prophecies, the Law of Time, and much more.

This might just be an idea, whose time has come...

Interview composed and conducted by R.Lucente.
© 2003. All rights reserved. Productions.

* Images courtesy of Foundation for the Law of Time.


Greetings Dr. José Argüelles. Welcome to and THANKS for joining us.

It's a pleasure being here on the electronic airwaves.

Fantastic! We are very excited to have a conversation with you. Your New Time Peace Movement is starting to explode, and the 13 Moon Calendar is starting to come into more popular use - but, for as many people that are turning on, I think it's safe to say that still many folks are very much unaware of what the New Time Peace Movement is proposing.

So on that note, let's get right to it and have you activate the commUNITY here in with your knowledge of time! To start, why don't you explain your Foundation, its missions and concept?

The Foundation for the Law of Time began in the summer of 2000. Its purpose is to promote the 13 Moon Calendar, the 13 Moon Calendar Change Peace Plan, and the Law of Time. The 13 Moon Calendar is intended to replace the current Gregorian calendar. The 13 Moon Calendar is an absolutely perfect harmonious 13-month, which are called Moons, calendar, of 28 days each. Everything is very evenly, orderly and harmonic so you can't get lost in time.

When you look at the Gregorian calendar, as we know, it befuddles the mind: 30 days hath September, April, June and November, all the rest have 31, except for February which has 28, except for on Leap Year which has 29, and I feel sorry for the people born on February 29.


The Gregorian calendar is so dogmatic. Most people have no idea how much we are programmed by a calendar, even people who say, 'Well I don't follow a calendar'. Well, a calendar is what programs a society that uses it. It is the most fundamental program that a society has. If you take the calendar away from society, the society ceases to exist really.

Foundation for the Law of TImeSo is that what your Foundation is targeting and addressing?

Yes, we're addressing this whole issue of the calendar. You see a calendar is also supposed to be a standard of measure and what you want with a standard of measure is even units of measure. The calendar we use right now does not have even units of measure. It has months that are uneven and it has weeks that don't correlate with the months. So those units of measure don't mesh. Well that messes with your head something terrible and when you've been using that for 400 years, it messes with the society's head so badly that the society doesn't know how deformed its thinking really is and that's problematic.

So you're suggesting that perhaps a change of the current calendar may help humanity is some way?

Yes, I think the point is, it will improve humanity. It will be of the greatest benefit to humanity to start getting its mind from a deformed state to a harmonic state and that's the whole point. So, we're promoting that, and what we're looking at is the Great Calendar Change of 2004, which is not too far away. We're looking at July 25 and 26, 2004 as the big moment to pass through this moment in time.

Wow, that's a pretty aggressive schedule you must have?

Yes it is, but you know we've been on the schedule for a while. I first became aware of this problem with the calendar back in 1988 or 1989. I had written a book called The Mayan Factor back in 1987 based on the Mayan calendar. When I started trying to put the Mayan calendar into the present time I saw it had real problems because the Gregorian calendar is not harmonic like the Mayan calendar is. Then in 1989, I made the discovery of the 12:60 frequency.

I was in the Museum of Time in Geneva and realized that the museum should be renamed the Museum of Mechanical Time. It's another one of those things people don't realize. They think time is like what's in a watch, but that's another one of these dreadful illusions. I was in this museum, and realized, because I had been studying and living on Mayan timing cycles, that everything in modern civilization is based on this concept of time which is not really valid.

The mechanical clock is based on 12, and the 12-month calendar, of course is also based on 12. 12 is a number that has to do with space, and you'll see how the programming is, remember every school classroom has a round clock. Every office you walk into has a round clock on the wall. What is that? You're looking at a 2 dimensional plane, a circle. A 2 dimensional plane in space with these little
hands… (Laughs)

time isn't a circle(Laughs) Right.

…going around and around. It's divided into 12 parts, because it's a 360 degree thing, so 12 goes into 360 30 times. You have this thing; it's a measurement of space. What's that got to do with time? Those little hands going around this thing in space. That's not time. People are hypnotized by that. They think that's time. So I looked at that this and thought, 'This is all wrong', and realized that the whole civilization is based on an error in time. This error in time: thinking that time is based on the number 12, the hands going around the clock, and a calendar that is totally irregular, illogical and absurd. The combination of this calendar and the mechanical clock creates a state of mind or consciousness, which we refer to as the 12:60 frequency: the 12-month calendar and the 60-minute mechanical hour. The 12-month calendar is irrational and the 60-minute hour is mechanistic. So you have a civilization that is a totally irrational civilization based on the mechanization of everything. That just creates a messed up species.

You're knowledge of the actual history of time is really impressive. Perhaps you may share with us a bit how the current Gregorian calendar and mechanical clock came into being?

I'll just say one other thing, when I made that discovery about the 12:60 frequency, that's when I realized we had to change the calendar. That was the first step. We had to get a harmonic calendar.

Now when we say, 'What is the history of these things?' Well, you know I found out that the concept of the clock existed at the very beginning of history. 3100 BC, the Sumerians, in the first city of history, Uruk, which is an early version of the name Iraq (that's where we're going - back to bomb the beginning of history) they had already come up with the concept of dividing the circle into segments and even into 24 hours.

What were they getting at with that? What do you think was motivating them?

Well, you know, that's an interesting thing, because before that time, when I looked at that matter, virtually everywhere on the planet, was following some kind of variation of a 13 Moon/28-day calendar. It was very pervasive. The Druids had it. It was all over Europe, ancient China even, and this idea of dividing the circle and then substituting the division of the circle for concepts of time, I believe was actually part of what I would call a male Babylonian conspiracy. You know we call the dates before the birth of Christ, BC? Well, that really means Babylonian Conspiracy!


And we're still living in the Babylonian Conspiracy. Why is the number 13 superstitious? It's the biggest superstition that we have in this civilization.
A guy named Jonathan Ott, who writes for Rolling Stone, he wrote a book called
13: A Journey Into the Number
. Tridecaphobia is fear of the number 13. Why is that? Because the number 13 represents harmony. It also represents what we might call cosmic harmony, as well as the feminine principle.

So I believe that the whole thing began as some type of, almost cosmic conspiracy, to establish a male patriarchy that was using a calendar, which eventually was going to be mumbo-jumbo, to confuse and keep the people oppressed and because of this you'll see when did taxation begin? Where did money come from? You'll see that they're all closely related to this idea of a calendar. In fact, the word calendar itself, is a Latin word. The Romans inherited their civilization basically in concepts of war, taxation, and money, from the Babylonians, and the word calendar means account book. The first day of the Roman month was called calends, that's when you pay your bills.

So the Babylonians, the Sumerians, and then later on down to the Romans, created this system of the calendar and used it as way of manipulating people. They invented money and then had people pay taxes.

And they could time them then.

Yes, that's what we call time thieves or time bandits. They created the concept that time is money. We still live with that. That's why I say we're still in this Babylonian conspiracy. So, that began way back then. The calendar that we use today, the Gregorian calendar, actually came from Rome. It came from Julius Caesar. It was originally called the Julian calendar. The Romans had a very funky calendar at the time of Julius Caesar.

Did they invent this one from scratch?

Well, for some reason or another they just had a 10-month calendar, and then Julius Caesar added 2 more months, and this created great havoc. Why did Julius Caesar do that? Because he wanted to have a new instrument of control when he proposed that Rome ceased to be a Republic and become an Empire. That's why he was assassinated. When he imposed that calendar, their count of time was way off. So the first year of that calendar was called the Year of Great Confusion, because it had 400 and 40 odd days.

But, at one point, didn't someone try to incorporate a solar quality to it, with 365 days?

Well, yes, he made it into a measure of the solar orbit, which is 365 days, but it doesn't have even units of measure. It's like having a yardstick and then 1 inch is actually 1-½ inches, and another inch is ¾'s of an inch. Well you're going to build a very screwy house with that! So we live in a mental house of time, which is very screwy. I'll tell you, one other thing is nobody questions hardly why we use this calendar, much less what the names of the month's mean which is another screwy thing.

How did some of the names come into play?

Well, January is the God of the Doorway. February is an obscure reference to a type of entrails used in a form of divination. March is named after Mars, the God of War. April and May are named after obscure floral Goddesses of the springtime. Juno was the wife of Jupiter. July is named after Julius Caesar. August is named after Augustus Caesar. August used to be the month called Sextile, which means 6, and Augustus Caesar said, 'Julius has a month named after him, I want a month named after me.' So he changed Sextile to August. At that time it only had 30 days, February had 29, so he took the 29th day from February and added it to August so it would have 31 just like Julius did with July.

September, which is the 9th month, means 7. October, which is the 10th month, means 8. November, the 11th month, means 9. December, the 12th month, means 10. That's screwy. OK, and the civilization which is based on that is also screwy. That's why we got real big problems in the world today. Because we've accepted this calendar, we've dogmatized it. You can read books by scholars about the calendar, and they all apologize for this calendar. They say, 'We know this calendar is a medieval anachronism. But it works and everybody uses it, so don't question it.'

Was there a movement for a calendar reform to happen at some point?

Yes, there was. This calendar was, of course, inherited by the Christians in the 6th century or even before that, which then became the Eastern Church, the Orthodox Church and later on the Catholic Church. Then in 1582, Pope Gregory the 13th had a reform of the Julian calendar and then it became known after Pope Gregory, as the Gregorian calendar. In a sense, this calendar is the Vatican's calendar. The world lives on Vatican time.

There was a movement to reform the Gregorian calendar that began in the 19th century. In fact, the French Positivist Philosopher, Father of Sociology, a guy named Auguste Comte, in 1842 or so, decided that the calendar was totally irrational and that we should have a rational calendar. So he made a study and said 'The most rational calendar for a measure of the solar year is going to be 13 months and 28 days.'

Where did he pick it up?

He picked it up, believe it or not, from the Polynesians who were using that calendar. The French explorers came back from the South Pacific and they said, 'Hey look at this, the Polynesians use a calendar of 13 months and 28 days.' You go to a lot of indigenous people and you tell them about this, and they say, 'Oh yes, I remember grandpa said something about that long time ago. We haven't seen it in long time either.' A guy in the Hawaiian Islands says, 'Oh yes, Tutu said we had that one once.' So, everybody had it.

So he proposed going to that?

He proposed doing that. It was the most rational thing in the world, which it is, 13-months/28-days. It's an even standard of measure. The female menstrual cycle is 28 days. It's in tune with human biology. Actually scientifically, the Moon does go around the Earth 13 times a year. If you're out in space and you see it, you see our measurement of the Moon here, from New Moon to New Moon, goes in a cycle of 29 days or if you measure the Moon from where it appears at one point in the sky and when it returns to that same point is 27 days. So between the 27 and the 29 is the 28. That's the actual lunar average or standard and actually that's the basis of it, and as I said it's the female biological cycle.

So, toward the end of the 19th century, there were many movements. They said, 'Oh, we're going to get to the 20th century which is going to be scientific, we need to get rid of the Gregorian calendar.' So these movements began. The League of Nations, in the 1920s, the predecessor of the UN, they took up the cry. The International Chamber of Commerce, people like Eastman Kodak, of Kodak Film, they were all into it.13 x 28 = 364 + 1 = 365

So, they went to the League of Nations and the League of Nations announced that on January 1, 1933 the world would have a new calendar. They had solicited for proposals and got over 500 proposals to replace the Gregorian calendar. They narrowed it down to 3 and by far, unanimously, the most popular one was the 13-month/28-day calendar. About 90% of the organizations polled with regards to the calendar went for that one. So it looked like we should have been on the 13-month/28-day calendar in 1933. So what happened?

OK, what happened was in 1929, a guy named Benito Mussolini, a Fascist dictator of Italy decided that the Vatican, who's power had shrunk enormously from the time of Pope Gregory the 13th in 1582 when the Vatican virtually owned the planet (in terms of its colonization's and finance and so on) that it had shrunk. It had lost all its power. Benito Mussolini said the Vatican needs to have political status, political power again, needs to have its own banking system and in 1929 the Vatican became virtually a nation state of 4 acres and was able to wield a lot of power. So when the news of the calendar reform came, and as I said the Gregorian calendar is really the Vatican calendar…

Right, so Mussolini made a point to…?

Yes so, the Vatican then marshaled all of its influence, which was still very great, and at that time still had influence with many scientists and said, 'Look 13-months/28-days, 13 times 28 is 364. There is 365 days in a solar orbit. The 365th day is no day of the week or month at all.' This is what we call a DAY-OUT-OF-TIME, which correlates to July 25.

This 'Day-Out-of-Time' or 'null day', as they called it back then, was objected to strenuously by the Vatican. The Vatican raised big arguments saying that, 'If we had a null day, a day that was no day of the week or month at all, that that would break the succession of the 7-day week that was set in motion when God created the Universe.' In any case, the Vatican, and its scientific apologists said, 'If we break the succession of the 7-day week, that the world will fall into social chaos, catastrophe, terrorism and war.' Well, where are we today because we didn't make that reform?

So, they officially ruled it out?

It didn't go. Then the movement to reform the calendar went into a muddle and then World War II happened. Then after the atomic bombs in 1945 and during World War II, the world changed enormously and what had been a very high priority with the League of Nations became a very low priority with the United Nations. In 1956, the UN tabled any further discussions about calendar reform.

In 1961 the Vatican Ecumenical Council had a statement about calendar reform that said they would accept a reform of the Gregorian calendar only if it respected the 7-day week and the fact that Easter had to remain a movable feast. Why is Easter never on the same day every year? They have a very weird rule about that, says Easter is always the first Sunday after the first Full Moon after the Spring Equinox, except for when the Full Moon is on a Sunday. Then it's on the Sunday after that because if it were on that Sunday, then it would coincide with Jewish Passover.

Interesting, so that and the "null day" was their stance?

Yes, so that effectively stopped the whole thing, threw it into a muddle. It didn't happen. It was tabled; by 1956 the calendar reform movement appeared to have died away. And most people, they said well, the world had changed enormously, and people said, 'Well we're more prosperous then we ever were, why do we want to change that for right now and mess things up?' OK, because if you change the calendar, you do mess things up, but then maybe that's what you want to do.

So this brings in where your Foundation now comes into play?

Well, I had studied the Mayan calendar and that was basically where I was coming from in 1989 and I said, 'Well the first thing we have to do is get on a harmonic standard, 13-months/28-days.' I knew nothing at all at that point about the earlier calendar reform movement.

Did you at first know about the Mayan calendar or did you know about 13 Moon calendars?

I knew about the Mayan calendar and I knew that the 13 Moon Calendar was one of the Mayan calendars. The 13 Moon Calendar was known by the Maya as the Tun Uc, which means the count of 7.

You've studied the Mayan calendar so much, could you please tell us about how it works?

Well, the Mayan calendar, actually in the hey-day of Mayan civilization, which was about 13, 14 centuries ago, the Maya were using maybe up to 17 calendars. This is an interesting thing, you say, 'Well, why were they using that many calendars? What's the deal?' Well, they knew something about time that we don't know. We think time is something you measure on a clock and you can reduce down to nanoseconds. We think that time is absolutely linear, this doctrine of inexorability, that we are going continuously from the past into a future, and material progress is inexorable. This concept of time is very linear. Well, to the Maya, time was not mechanical and time was not linear. Time was the frequency of synchronization. Time is what counts for synchronicity. The more synchronicity there is, the more in time and in tune with time that you are. A concept of time that is linear and mechanistic makes synchronicity an oddball thing.

So the Maya didn't buy into the concept of past/present/future?

Well, that's an interesting thing. They had a concept of past and future, but they had also much more the idea of cycles, or cyclical order, or what I've come to call, synchronic order. The thing is this, why would you use more than one calendar? Why would you use 17 calendars? The more standards that you use that are all harmonized with one fundamental standard, then the greater the synchronicity you will get.

So, you have solar calendars, lunar calendars, different kinds of terrestrial calendars, calendars of the cycles of planets, Mars, Venus cycles. You have calendars that are working with the Pleiadian and different stellar and galactic cycles. You put all those together and you start to discover enormous patterns of synchronicity. So what I found was the basic tool that they were using is the 260-day cycle, which they call the Tzolkin, the sacred count. You correlate the 260-day cycle with the 365-day cycle and you get a lot of interesting patterns. So I had already begun to perceive that this was a whole different order of time. Tzolkin - 13x20 = 260

In 1989, I saw that modern civilization, well from a Mayan point of view, modern civilization, from a point of view of time, is primitive and stunted and also deviant. It's following this mechanistic concept and it actually believes that it's time, but whereas for the Mayans, time was patterns of synchronicity. How do you synchronize your mind, your biology, your consciousness, with the natural order, with the cosmic order? This is how you get cosmic consciousness and for the Mayans that was a prime value.

This struck me very strongly and I saw that modern civilization is this gigantic, runaway, Babylonian monster that is chewing up the Earth. It's chewing up the Earth because it's running on what we call artificial time, it's an artificial civilization. It creates an artificial order of reality called the technosphere and this technosphere, like some giant hybrid monster, straddles the Earth, munching forests, creating ozone holes and global warming, demanding more and more blood in exchange for money, creating wars and polluting everything. That's all due to artificial time. You get on an airplane and all the ads are for watches and computers. I saw all this and said, 'This has to stop.' It's like you create a machine and you put it on this kind of automatic timing thing and no one's running the show.

No one can stop it.

No one can stop it. So how do you throw a monkey wrench into the works? Well, how you throw the monkey wrench into the works is you take out the fundamental macro program, which is the calendar. That's the monkey wrench in the works. I saw that back in 1989 and 1990, and I worked out a lot more mathematics of the Mayan calendar, but I knew this 13-month/28-day calendar was really the ticket to replace this Gregorian calendar. I didn't know in an uphill struggle it was going to be. I started telling people about this and they all looked at me like I was crazy, but I got a very strong sense of urgency. Then in 1993 I decoded a Mayan prophecy, which said basically that: the human species was operating in error and unless it reverted to natural time and abandoned the artificial time, it would destroy itself by, our favorite date, 2012. Which is not very far away.

When you say you decoded the prophecy, what do you mean? How did you do that?

In Palenque, which is really a prime Mayan site, lived the greatest and most interesting of all the ancient Mayans. That was a man who came to be identified as someone named Pakal or the Great Pakal or Pakal Votan. the Great Pakal VotanHis fame rested on this fact, in 1952 an archeologist discovered a tomb, down in the bottom of one of the great pyramids of Palenque, the Pyramid of the Inscriptions. It took him 3 years, starting in 1949, to dig and then on June 15 of 1952, he finally opened this big, big, huge, stone door like in an Indiana Jones movie, and there was the most spectacular thing you could see: a big, big under ground crypt.

This guy, the archaeologist, who was a Marxist from Cuba, he wrote later on, 'When I opened that door, I could feel the thoughts of the last people in there, over a thousand years ago, escaping.' Gives you the chills, you know? That's interesting. What were those thoughts?

It hadn't been opened since when?

That stone door had been sealed in 692 and here is this sarcophagus, which had this huge, huge tomb lid, which is now very famous. It's on the cover of my book, The Mayan Factor, and its towards the end of Time and the Technosphere, I reproduced it there, the Sarcophagus Lid of the Tomb of Pakal Votan. tomb lid of Pakal VotanThat sarcophagus lid and also a lot of stuff on the side of that lid and on that tomb, a lot of symbols and hieroglyphic scripts and so on, that's what I decoded.

Oh, the Mayan language was recorded in glyphs and …?

Yes, hieroglyphs and things like that, and also just symbols, even beyond language. Plus, I discovered this, OK, here's this tomb dedicated in 692, nobody knew about its existence until 1952. I'm standing there in 1989, 1990 making this discovery, 12:60 timing frequency = artificial time. Natural timing frequency, if there's an artificial one there must be a natural one, I discovered is 13:20. That's the basis of the 260-day cycle, which correlates all synchronicity.

OK, 12:60 and 13:20, and there I am in 1993 with this prophecy, decoding this tomb. OK get this, I realize this tomb was dedicated in 692, and discovered in 1952, 1260 years later, 12:60. 692, when that tomb was dedicated, until 2012, the closing of the cycle, 1320 years, 13:20. So, I said, 'Oh, I get it, that's part of the prophecy right there.' The prophecy says that the discovery of the tomb in 1952 will say that humanity is living in the tomb of 12:60 artificial time. 2012 means that you have from 1952 until 2012, 60 years for humanity to get from 12:60 time to 13:20 time.

(Laughs) Wow.

So, we're only 10 years away now. The 13 Moon Calendar of course is correlated to the 260-day cycle, so it's a pure 13:20 timing frequency. That's what is required for humanity to be in that cycle. That's what's required by 2012 if we don't want to destroy ourselves.

Can you talk about what you think is corresponding to 2012 with the Earth and the Galaxy, as a whole evolution, something bigger happening than just with humanity?

Now I see the Mayan civilization, the Mayan culture, they purposely left this time information for the present moment to see if we could figure out what we have to do. So that's what I figured out, that we have to get back into the natural time. What happens in 2012, isn't just a closing out of what we call the cycle of history, it's also an evolutionary moment in the evolution of the Sun. You have to remember our Sun is a star. All stars have their own progressive stages of evolution and we all know that in the last 15 years the Sun has been acting most peculiarly. It acts more peculiar every day, which is going to be coming more and more dramatic as we get to 2012, which incidentally completes the next Sun spot cycle.

So what you have is an alignment of the Earth and Sun with Galactic Center, which is in the area of Sagittarius. John Major Jenkins has written a book about that, the 2012 galactic synchronization. We're approaching a moment of tremendous solar and galactic synchronization. Well, what does that mean for us? It means that life on Earth is going to be evolving and mutating. So, we have to be ready for that. This whole artificial junkie civilization, this technosphere, is like a big tinker toy set. It's going to come down. It's starting to come down right now. The first big signal was the 9/11. The question is: is it going to come down because of war and natural disasters, which have been engendered by human species operating on wrong time and artificial technology? Or is it going to come down because the human species got the intelligence to figure out that it had to change its frequency? Rainbow Bridge

This gets back to the point of the calendar. It looks like a very simple little device, but the point of it is to change the frequency of human consciousness so that the human consciousness is in tune with the natural cosmic order of reality and in that way it can become in tune with the natural cosmic order in time to be ready for 2012.

That's why this 2004 date is so critical. Really it's the last moment, the last opportunity to get the calendar change and to give the human species enough time, it's like eight years, to shift its consciousness. A lot can happen in eight years if you are in the right frequency. A lot can happen in the wrong frequency too. If we continue eight years after 2004 in the wrong frequency, then your 2012 worst case scenarios are a sure bet.

What are the Foundations plans for once you reach your goal date of 2004? If the 13 Moon Calendar hasn't been accepted globally?

Well, we're confident that now, literally, this is an idea who's time has come. We've seen, especially since the 9/11, finally in this country, people waking up to this calendar thing. We have a big movement already throughout Latin America, Japan, Russia, Western Europe, many places on the planet. It's starting because of the Internet and our Web site.

There are probably 150,000 to 200,000 people who actually are following the calendar and that's increasing greatly. All we really need is an informed critical minority who is able to be properly vocal and vociferous and knows how to use the media when it comes to that point in 2004 to make it effective. We've been to the United Nations. We've been to the Vatican. Kofi Anan knows very well about our work.

What about the big governments and what not?

That's an interesting issue there. I'm quite sure that actually we will have some governments already behind this. We have a strong possibility starting with Brazil. Brazil also happens to be the largest Catholic country in the world.

And one of the biggest examples of the economy crumbling.

Yes, exactly. I see that regardless of where the governments are, this is going to be one of those events of enormous historical significance because it is actually going to be, what we might call, a very interesting peoples revolution. A revolution in time.

It's a cultural phenomenon and a cultural revolution. We will establish a new community and this community will establish its own legitimacy. We've put forth a Peace Plan with this too that says, first of all that on the Day-Out-of-Time, July 25, 2004, that we should call a universal cease-fire. We want to see a universal cease-fire that will observe the universal change in time.

We are also calling for a Universal Religion Council with leading representatives of all the world religions, as well as indigenous leaders to kind of referee it, that will just come together on this one point and agree that to change the calendar will give the human race the opportunity to stop in its' tracks, to stop shooting for a little bit, to reorganize its' priorities, and to make a better world.

I applaud that and hope to see it pick up there. What are some of your other concepts involving 'time'?

OK, first of all, time is art. In the present society, time is money. That's everywhere and everyone knows that. Whatever you do, it's 'How much does it cost?' and if you don't make it to work, 'How much will that cost?' Everything is prorated down to money, so it's a purely materialistic concept. That is the nature of it. A calendar means an account book. There is a move to change the name of calendar to 13 Moon Syncronometer, the measure of your synchronicity.

That the word 'calendar' is just abandoned completely?

Yes, exactly. So when you're living in 13:20 time (12:60 is time is money), everything is harmonic. Harmony is art. Harmony is the basis of art. The Law of Time, it's an interesting formulation says: energy factored by time equals art. That's why, as we say, 'You've never seen an ugly sunset.' Even spiders, scorpions and such things are fascinatingly artistic or aesthetic. Scorpions do this dance and you look at their anatomy - everything is built…


Artfully. Exactly. So in a 13 Moon/28-day society the value of time is how artistic, how artful, how artfully you do it, how artistically, how aesthetic is it. That's why the 13 Moon Calendar Change Peace Movement organizational front is referred to as PAN (Planet Art Network).

The Planet Art Network is the organization around the world that promotes the calendar and the idea that when we are all living once again in natural time, when we have become once again one human family united in one common time, in a time of harmony, and we are now what we know as a global species living in a global society, we will transform that global society into one huge Planet Art Network. Since we've made such a mess of the planet we have to clean it up. The goal will be to make the planet an exquisite work of art. That's the value of being in this 13:20 time of harmony.

Here's another thing: time is the fourth dimension. What we've discovered is that we measure what we think of as everyday life, the time that we're spending right now, as I'm talking to you Robert, is that this time is the biological cyclical time. When we say where is time located? You can't find it, see it, or touch it. You can see space. You can smell it or whatever. Time is a whole other thing. Time is of the mind. When we're actually living in natural time then our mind is released into its natural dimension: the fourth dimension. The third dimension is the dimension of space. The fourth dimension is the dimension of time and the mind. That is where all art comes from and that is where all art takes you. You know like if you're listening to music or playing music. If you're playing music, then you go right out there. You know where you're going and that's the fourth dimension. That's where you are. Group Mind

Also, there is a relationship between natural time and telepathy. Time is the frequency of synchronization. That's another thing about the moment of the calendar change - to synchronize as many human beings as possible in a single moment and then have them take the next step in a new time. So the synchronization factor is very important. That's like when you're at a concert, or whatever, when the music is hot and it's on.

Ah, "the Group Mind experience." That's something that our audience is very in tune with. (Laughs)

Exactly. The Group Mind experience is a mini-aspect of what's called the Noospehere: the mind of the planet. So when we're all on the same natural time, in the 13:20 frequency, then all of our minds are going to become freer and freer. We're going to find that we are recovering our telepathy. You'll notice that if you watch ants they know exactly what they're doing. They go in file and they don't run into each other. How do they do that? They've got a whole telepathic structure that they're operating with which is the same as their order of society. The more that human beings got progressively materialistic and the more we got immersed in this 12:60 time, the more we gave up our natural telepathy.

So we found that by working with the synchronic order of time, beginning with the synchronization of a 260 and a 365-day cycle, we began to find that we could begin to open up the field of telepathy. This is an interesting point because we find that we've created a civilization today that creates more waste than it can get rid of and consumes resources faster than it can replenish. That's disaster. Even if we stop the machine, as it were, kill the beast, we still have this huge mess that we need to replenish. We know that in the brief history of technology that we haven't found any real cures for anything and technology can't solve the problems it creates because it creates more technology. That is always problematic to some degree. What can solve problems is group telepathic mind.

cosmic plasmasWe've developed what we might call 'proto-telepathic technologies' that are available through the Foundation. I've talked a lot with Russian scientists, who are generally way ahead of us in the West in the concept of time and there are some Russian scientists who equate time with telepathy. Time is actually instantaneously infinite. The moment that we are experiencing while we're talking here right now, whatever time it is there in New York, 9 or 10 o'clock, and maybe over in Moscow it's 6 in the morning, but actually, telepathically it's all the same instant.

Time is the speed of telepathy. So when we are in natural time and everything is synchronized, and our mind is synchronized with natural time, then our mind is synchronized with the speed of telepathy. When we begin to understand that we can focus telepathic thought wave to go into, for instance, radio active isotopes and neutralize them or into a cancer and neutralize it, then we could heal ourselves. We could heal the planet. Fundamentally, all of our diseases, all of the planetary problems come from the fact that we are out of phase and we are out of phase because we are in the wrong frequency. No one else is creating this problem. The turtles aren't creating it, the dolphins aren't. They're all dieing from it.

The problem is being created by humans. Everything about humans is out of phase, absolutely everything. It will continue to be out of phase as long as we're living in the wrong time. If we could just get the point across that this is the most radical fundamental solution, it will change our consciousness forever. It will ultimately pull the rug out from the existing order.

Is the calendar you're promoting on your Web site directly related to the Mayan calendar or have there been any advances/modifications to it?

The Dreamspell and the 13 Moon Calendar that we've got going now, which is being followed by more and more people around the world, is based on the mathematics of the Mayan calendar, but it's as they say a different count from the Mayan Long Count. What I discovered when following my discovery of the 12:60 and the 13:20 frequencies was another application. And that application is called the Dreamspell. The Dreamspell is how you understand the existence of the synchronic order, of the patterns of synchronicity. Dreamspell literally refers to the common dream a people is living. So, for instance right now, we are living in the Dreamspell of History.

Which closes in 2012?

Yes, closes in 2012, but we need to shatter or dissolve the Dreamspell of History before then. The cycle of history closes in 2012, but if we are still in the Dreamspell of History in 2012, we won't be in 2013. José Argüelles recognized as Valum Votan, the closer of the cycle

So, the Dreamspell literally refers to the common dream a people is living. A spell. It lasts for a spell of time. So the dream that the people of the Earth today are commonly living is called the Dreamspell of History. It's held in place by the 12:60 timing frequency and its principle macro-instrument is the Gregorian calendar. So when we talk about the Great Calendar Change of 2004, we're also talking about high magic. If you want to dissolve a spell, if you want to dissolve the Dreamspell of History, then dissolve the calendar that holds that spell in place. So in other words the calendar change is to break the Dreamspell of History and enter into what's called the Galactic Dreamspell.

And that means we are going into galactic consciousness. The Earth is part of the Solar System. The Solar System is part of the Galaxy and we're going to evolve our consciousness telepathically into galactic consciousness. So we want to break the Dreamspell of History like a big act of magic and then begin the Galactic Dreamspell, the Dreamspell of Galactic Culture, where everybody's got their new name, their galactic signature. (EDITOR NOTE: In the Thirteen Moon Calendar, each person is coded by one of 260 galactic signatures. This signature is known as your kin.)

13 Galactic TonesNow did you develop the naming sequence for these 'galactic signatures'?

Yes, that came from meditating on the 20 solar seals and the 13 galactic tones (the 13 numbers) used by the Maya.

Is that what you referred to earlier, as the Tzolkin?20 Solar Seals

(pronounces correctly). Yes, in The Mayan Factor, I define the Tzolkin actually as a harmonic module because I saw it had many more uses then a calendar. I actually did a book before The Mayan Factor, my mind-breaker book, which is still available, called Earth Ascending. In Earth Ascending I discovered that the Tzolkin is actually a form of the cosmic code. I saw within its number permutations and its structural order, that it had all sorts of things locked into it, including the mathematical structure of the DNA.

Let's close on the concept of the Day-Out-of-Time, being that's really what people tend to get hung up on a lot. I have read your take on this Day which explains that because the 13 Moon Calendar is 13 months of 28 days, that the 365th Day is a 'Day-Out-of-Time'. Can you please explain this more?

Well, there are 2 things that people get hung about. One is Leap Year Day and the other is the Day-Out-of-Time.

Leap Year is because supposedly right now the Earth goes around the Sun 365.25 days, so every 4 years you gain a day. So, there's a lot of ways to skin a cat. When we have the calendar change, we'll eliminate Leap Year Day and we'll have Jubilee Days, 13 Jubilee Days every 52 years.

13 consecutive days?

Yes, 13 consecutive days in which you can totally put your social order on hold, throw out what doesn't work and look at what's new and what's going to work and then start over again.

Now the Day-Out-of-Time has to do with the fact that 13-months, 28-days equals 364 days. There's a 365th day that is no day of the month or week at all. That's the Day-Out-of-Time. The 13 Moon Dreamspell Calendar begins on the Gregorian date, July 26th. That was originally the point of which Sirius is conjunct with the Sun, when it rises. The star Sirius is like the major star in this part of the Universe. The Sun is very small and young compared to Sirius. In fact, there's Sirius A and Sirius B. And they do something funny, they rotate around each other, a very intelligent act. In any case, that's why the calendar starts on July 26th, it's correlated to Sirius rising, and that's another point, that's a galactic point. In other words, the beginning of the calendar is galactic-based. Day Out of Time Mandala

So, rather then starting on the solstice or an equinox, it's synchronized to a galactic point. That's why we say the Dreamspell is a Galactic Dreamspell. So that means the 365th day, correlates to July 26, then the 364th day is July 25. So this day, correlated to the Gregorian calendar July 25th, is the Day-Out-of-Time. No day of the month or week at all. So, beginning about 10 years ago, we were calling for Time is Art ceremonies or events to happen on this day. By the end of the 90's, in places like Japan and Brazil, this was getting to be very big. So this day is for forgiveness and to celebrate time is art, to have spiritual uplifted types of events.

We've found this is now growing very popular around the world. So this year, the 2003 Day-Out-Of-Time, which because of the Gregorian calendar falls on a Friday, lots of bands, people, artists, will have performances, and we're are putting out the call, for whoever's having a performance, any kind of music event or performance on July 25 this year, that they refer to it as a Day-Out-of-Time event. And we're trying to get people at all these events to have calendars there.

I have read on your Web site that you are referring to this year's 'Day-Out-of-Time' as the 'Galactic Be-In'?

Yes, we refer to this year's as the Galactic Be-In. We're putting the word out that, everywhere, this will be the preparation, the first signal that we are now entering the year of the Great Calendar Change. We want to get that word out at a mass level.

This year's Day-Out-of-Time is the Galactic Be-In, the Great Galactic Be-In, July 25, 2003. Whatever you're doing, just realize, that you're participating in a Day-Out-of-Time, and try to find someone that's got one of those 13 Moon Calendars, and try to find someone who can be there to decode. To decode means getting people's galactic signatures.

And the next day, July 26th, begins a New Year?

And the next day begins the New Year, the next year. We lived this year, the
Year of the Red Planetary Moon
. This is a year of planetary purification. So, this year's Day-Out-of-Time is going to be the Planetary Skywalker, OK, that's very galactic. And then the New Year is going to be the Year of the White Spectral Wizard. Now this is very auspicious, we're asking that the White Spectral Wizards spectralize the 12:60, just turn it into rainbows, and get us into the new time.

Beautiful! Thank you very much. I think that's a great note to go out on. Dr. Argüelles. We appreciate you taking the time to speak so generously about these topics.

Yes, well, it's been a real great pleasure and I know that everybody out there who's going to be reading this is going to get stimulated in some way or another. They should know that if they want to get calendars or something, they should be in touch with our Foundation for the Law of Time.

Fantastic. And the Web site you have is incredibly informative. I highly recommend for people to check it out. Thank you so much, we appreciate your time!

OK, well hey it's been great!

For more information please visit TORTUGA.COM
or write to:
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(Dr. José Argüelles books available at Time and the Technosphere, The Mayan Factor, Earth Ascending, Surfers of the Zuvuya, Transformative Vision, Arcturus Probe)

A VERY special THANKS to Dr. José Argüelles and Stephanie South, for making this interview possible.

Special THANKS also to Webmaster - David Rink
to 2012 Prod. crew JenDee and LennyX for help with
transcriptions and edits.

A complete unabridged manuscript of this interview is available: dwnld word doc.

:: Open your Mind to a New Time ::
- interviews
Dr. José Argüelles
Interview composed and conducted by R.Lucente.
© 2003. All rights reserved. Productions.

* Images courtesy of Foundation for the Law of Time.